I think it was probably me that made the suggestion to Phil based on the factors mentioned in my post above, with no implication that they were by any means ideal for the 825/828. At ~100 bucks a pop it's a cheap way to temporarily fill 15 inch holes with "our" brand, and they usually flip for the same price you paid which essentially makes them free sans shipping, and who doesn't like free in this economic climate?Originally Posted by GM
Not all vegetables make good leaders.
i like free
i certainly didn't mean to cause a fuss GM. over the last few months i've become somewhat biased for altec products. i'm sure there maybe audio products out there that can reproduce sound as good as the older altec stuff but i'd have to hear it to believe it. maybe i should stick to asking questians.
I don't think he or anyone else thinks you're causing a fuss. He questioned, and rightfully so, the suggestion of putting a 3156 in an 825/828. Certainly not an "ideal" combination, but so far as i know the speaker police won't arrest you for it, and if your ears are working it's pretty doubtful you'd break anything, and they'd make music until you can fund proper 416's or similar.i like free
i certainly didn't mean to cause a fuss GM. over the last few months i've become somewhat biased for altec products. i'm sure there maybe audio products out there that can reproduce sound as good as the older altec stuff but i'd have to hear it to believe it. maybe i should stick to asking questians.
Altec didn't always play by the rules either. The 411 is a great woofer, but you wouldn't normally expect to see one like this: ALTEC LANSING Model 9861
Not all vegetables make good leaders.
Ok, good to know, thanks!
Digital EQ can reshape the reflex BW, though if later OEM, GPA units sound as ‘muddy’ up high as the few I tinkered with way back when, then using XOs >500 Hz may prove very disappointing to some.
GM
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No fuss, it?s these types of scenarios that the most useful info sometimes surfaces.
Probably the most eye opening one for me was when I posted something about plywood 828 cabs based on my ~1975 knowledge and it tweaked enough folks that even lurkers challenged it.
Anyway, the upshot was that enough visible evidence was posted to show just how desperate Altec became later on to provide product. A7s made from a mix of cheap ply, MDF, particleboard [some cheaply covered with paper ?veneer?_ as seen from the inside], un-braced horn flares made from Masonite or similar that was obviously ?formed? in a series of bends on a metal forming brake plus other ?shortchanging? measures to use up as much scrap as practical.
Really sad and a pity those pics were lost unless someone made copies.
If you get a chance, audition TAD, GOTO, with the former maybe a ?tad?better and the latter at least a notch up from all but the earliest 515s and some say on a par with the best W.E., Klanghorn, RCA point source [cone mid] bass woofers.
GM
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'Woofer' is right, I had a tough time listening to the Barcelonas at 500 Hz and forget the Santanas at 800 Hz. What a waste of beautiful cabinetry! Can't even imagine what they sound like XO'd up high in a small A7.
Made great 'subs' XO'd at 120 Hz in the partitioned A7-500s though.
GM
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Hmm, ?mushy? typically indicates an under-damped alignment down low, which isn?t uncommon with old VOTT cabs due to air leaks basically defeating much of its port tuning.
At 2 kHz, a 511 is just a wave-guide, so other than mouth reflections back to the throat causing peaks/dips in the response, there?s no ?ringing? going on.
The mid-bass horn begins ?pinching? the driver?s output above ~1695 Hz, so it seems reasonable that a ? octave above it would be obviously audible off axis.
Short answer: the small single driver VOTT mid-bass horn?s close enough ?ideal? horizontal blend to 511/811 through the XO BW = ~1200 Hz/800 Hz respectively based on Altec?s DI Vs Q measured plots and use some form of CD horn EQ to flatten it out to ?taste? [minimize horn ?honk?/mids ?grain?].
GM
Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
Thanks for all of the help. Sorry for not responding as I was out of town for a bit. These drivers were NOS from Lambda not AE. Long story short the original manufacturer and not the current. Also about half the price of the current drivers. Some say the cone mold is based on an Altec design, I don't know and it doesn't really matter. Basically, they were the best new 15" driver I could afford. The correct Altec LF drivers were too expensive and too risky given their age and the fact that I couldn't even get the horns shipped correctly.
I have quite a few air leaks to tackle, some bracing, and some port tuning. I will lower the crossover and try and figure out how to do some measurements. It may well be that the high crossover simply eliminates the 1-2K bump in response coming from the HF and thus sounds better. I can eq it flat digital or analog once I can measure. I'll also check phase but I don't have any time alignment capabilities other than phase and moving the horn back and forth.
Thanks,
Greg
My cones will be 60 years old next May and your eardrums will distort before these speakers will. Deafening would be an understatement.
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